hidden gem horror films

by dandy j. west and gene lass

October is the time of year when people are looking for recommendations for good horror movies, unless you’re like us and you watch them year-round. If you look at lists, you’ll get the usual classics out there and some of the box office hits. But what you’re typically not getting are the hidden gems – films that weren’t released for long, or that may have been successful but have since been forgotten. Here we have a list of some of our favorites, ranging from influential but forgotten classics to horror comedies to truly horrifying films that will haunt you and turn your stomach.
Note: For films that both of us have seen, you’ll see * Dandy approved or * Gene approved. Otherwise they’re films one of us has seen that we’d heartily recommend.

1. Fido (2006 horror comedy)

   I love, love, love this film. If you’re under 50, chances are you’ve never seen an episode of “Lassie” but that’s exactly what this film is, if you replace Lassie, the family dog who always saves the day, with Fido, a zombie. The premise is that the world is now a utopia because, while the zombie apocalypse has occurred, the zombies were tamed with control collars, so now zombies are doing all the jobs living humans didn’t want to, like mowing lawns, working in factories, and other tedious or dangerous things that didn’t require a lot of intelligence. Academy Award-winning actor and comedian Billy Connoly plays Fido, who may remember more of his life among the living than people expect, leading the public to wonder if it’s right to have the dead do their laundry.

2. Targets (1968 horror/thriller)

At this point in career, Boris Karloff was a legend who rose to fame playing Frankenstein’s Monster and the Mummy then did far lesser films, often for producer/director Roger Corman, in which he played a wizard or a mad scientist, In this unique film, Karloff essentially plays himself, and he’s delightful. Peter Bogdanovich, who would come to acclaim later but was at this point just beginning his career, co-stars and directs, and all the scenes he shares with Karloff are pure magic, but Karloff’s scenes by himself are even better, my favorite being a scene in which Karloff sees his reflection in a mirror and inadvertently scares himself. In the film, Karloff is a horror legend set to retire, but he’ll make one more appearance at a drive-in, which will be showing a double feature of two of his films. At the same time, a young man in the area becomes unhinged, killing his family and hiding out behind the screen at the drive-in, where he plans to snipe attendees. This part of the plot is based on the 1966 shooting at the University of Texas in Austin, one of many moments in the late 60s that haunted America.

3. Island of Lost Souls (1932 horror/sci-fi)

Released the year after his legendary role as “Dracula”, this film, based on H.G. Wells’ novel, “The Island of Dr. Moreau” features Charles Laughton as Dr. Moreau, a scientist who has been combining animals and humans, and Bela Lugosi as one of his “animal men.” The film was banned in many countries for its themes, but has been a major influence for years, including, oddly, for the band Devo, who took their band name, and the name of one of their albums, “Are We Not Men?” from the film. Worth finding, particularly in the fully restored version, not just as the film itself, but also to see why Lugosi continued to be a legend and in-demand actor after “Dracula.”

4. The Menu (2022 horror/black comedy) *Dandy approved

This movie hits home for any horror fan, but also anyone who has ever worked in food service or customer service. In it, Anya Taylor-Joy and Nicholas Hoult are on a dinner, date, headed to an island for an invitation-only multi-course gourmet dinner prepared by a legendary chef, played by Ralph Fiennes. It quickly becomes apparent that there are actually two mysteries about the evening – one being what the next course will be, and the other – why were these specific guests invited?

5. Carver (2006 slasher)

I don’t watch many slasher films anymore, because I’m beyond tired of the formula. Teenagers or adults in their early 20s go camping, or have a party, or get lost somewhere, and for whatever reason, someone starts killing them. After a while it comes down to the creativity of their deaths, the gore, and if there’s any actual suspense to the film or whether it’s just a splatterfest. It’s even worse now in the age of CGI, where computers ironically make a movie look cheaper and faker than prosthetics and colored corn syrup “blood” ever did.
Carver is a serious exception. Yes, it’s about two brothers and their friends who run into trouble on a camping trip, but there are plot elements you don’t see in other films, there’s suspense, there’s character development, and one of the most sheerly gruesome kills I’ve ever seen in a film, done with conventional effects. Both the sound and image of it are forever burned in my memory, and they continue to make my stomach turn when I think of them.

6. All About Evil (2010 horror comedy)

This film is everything you would want in a low-budget campy horror film. Natasha Lyonne stars as a young woman who inherited her family’s low-budget movie theatre, which typically shows classic and grindhouse horror films. In order to keep it in business, she starts producing snuff films, then showing them at the theatre as if they fictional grindhouse films. It’s hilarious, it’s horrible, and if you’ve ever worked in a movie theatre, it was at one point probably your darkest fantasy.

7. Antibirth (2016 horror comedy)

This film, also starring Natasha Lyonne, really cemented the fact that she has a talent for dark comedy that makes use of her own reputation while also being disturbing and funny. Here, she and IRL friend Chloe Sevigny play hard-partying friends living in a small town in Michigan. They continually smoke, drink, and take whatever drugs they can find, while sleeping with whomever. That’s all fun until Lyonne’s character gets pregnant, and the pregnancy is far from normal. Comedy is mixed with some very disturbing body horror, and a unique twist ending that I continue to smile at almost a decade later.

8.     Llamageddon (2015 horror comedy)

This film is just uniquely awesome. Think of “Killer Clowns from Outer Space”, but with llamas, not clowns. Killer space llamas, who come to Earth by accident, then proceed to kill or mate with whatever they find as a means of conquest. There are disturbing body horror scenes on a par with John Carpenter’s “The Thing”, also involving llamas, but that clearly used up the budget, so later scenes were done in the form of cartoon animation. It’s hilarious, it’s gory (so gross and gory you may watch with your hands over your eyes, peeking between your fingers), it’s a must-see.

9.     Beyond the Black Rainbow (2010 horror)

If you like “Stranger Things”, you need to see this film, the first film from writer/director Panos Cosmatos. Like “Stranger Things”, which debuted 6 years later, the film is set in 1983, and it features a young girl with psychic powers who is held by a mysterious institute doing paranormal research. The color palette for the film is incredible, the music is retro, everything about it screams 1980s, with the jaundiced eye of modern audiences.

10.     King of the Ants (2003 horror)

Directed by legend Stuart (“Re-Animator”) Gordon, the film features noted “Cheers” actor George Wendt in a rare (if not only) and highly effective appearance as a bad guy. Wendt read the original novel, then contacted the author and Gordon about developing it as a film. In the film, a young man, down on his luck, agrees to kill someone for a shady real estate developer. When the developer then refuses to pay the young man, who went through with the murder, the young man objects, and so the developer has his thugs take the young man out to a remote location in the California desert, where each day, the thugs wrap foam padding around his head before hitting him in the skull with a baseball bat. The intent is to do just enough brain damage to make him forget the murder he committed, and lose the ability to implicate the men or their boss.
It's a seriously disturbing, graphically accurate tale of survival and revenge, while also being a testament to what humans will do to each other, and what they can overcome.

11.     Mandy (2018 action/horror

This second film by writer/director Panos Cosmatos continues Cosmatos’ style of incredible color and lighting with a retro ‘80s flair, this time starring Nicolas Cage as Red Miller, a veteran with an alcoholic past, living quietly with his wife, Mandy, in the Pacific Northwest. After a random encounter with a local cult, the couple are kidnapped and Mandy is murdered, leaving Red to seek revenge. The film is everything you would want, including Cage shifting from troubled but functional to full-on unhinged and hallucinating, and, yes, a chainsaw duel.

12.     A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night (2014 horror)

Like slasher movies, vampire movies and stories have been done so much that for some they’ve become tiresome. This makes films that do something different, like “Let the Right One In” and this film, so much better. Welcomingly refreshing. Writer/director Ana Lily Amirpour calls this “an Iranian vampire western,” and given how it bends and crosses genres, that makes sense. Set in modern-day Iran but shot in California, the film, beautifully shot in black and white, depicts a young female vampire, drifting along the streets of a small town each night, where she encounters good people and bad. She typically preys on the bad and sympathizes with the good, making her an antihero character who is still by nature a killer, but still a relatable girl who listens to music, rides a skateboard, and dreams of being loved.

13.     Revenge (2018, French, horror/thriller)

Drawing deeply from classic revenge films, most notably “I Spit on Your Grave”, this film depicts a woman who goes out to the California desert to spend a romantic weekend with her boyfriend, a married man, at a swank vacation home. When two friends of his arrive, she’s raped, grievously injured, and left for dead. She survives, and seeks revenge, with her attackers hunting her as much as she’s hunting them. It’s bloody, it’s graphic, but like other films on this list, it’s better written and of better quality than many previous entries in the genre. On the point of good writing, is the girl’s character arc. As is the case in a lot of horror or suspense films, the plot hinges on making bad decisions, and early on, she makes plenty. In some films this would make her a throwaway character, a victim. But in this film we learn she’s smarter than one would think, resourceful, determined, and the film explores that without getting preachy or testing our suspension of disbelief.

14.     Rubber (2010 horror comedy)

Look at that image. Yes, it’s a killer tire. What else do you need to know, really? That alone is brilliant, but “Rubber” goes the extra mile, into meta territory, as it becomes a tongue-in-cheek film-within-a film, with the pseudo-audience also dying bizarre and horrific deaths.

15.     Killer Sofa (2019 horror comedy)

Like “Rubber”, “Killer Sofa” is part of a fun horror sub-genre pioneered by the classic “Attack of the Killer Tomatoes” and its sequels. Horror spoofs that take something totally benign, like a tomato, tire, or piece of furniture, and make it bloodthirsty and deadly. However, unlike “Rubber” or the Killer Tomato films, “Killer Sofa” isn’t over the top. It’s done seriously, making it an absurdist horror comedy. The only thing wrong with it, really, is that it’s not about a sofa. As you can clearly see from the promotional art, it’s more like a killer recliner, but that wouldn’t sound as cool.

16.     Black Sheep (2006 horror comedy) *Dandy approved

This is another film that speaks for itself. Killer sheep. Not only are they killer sheep, but they’re basically zombie sheep in the vein of “28 Days Later.” This concept is hilarious, but the film also brings in a significant element of suspense and horror, given that it’s set in New Zealand, where there are more sheep than people.

17.     Late Phases (2014 horror)

Werewolf movies have been around since 1935, when “Werewolf of London”, the first full-length werewolf film, was released. Since then, like vampire films and slasher films, they’ve tended to go over the same lore over and over again, with some differences, and in the case of werewolf films, the big difference has been the quality of the makeup effects and the level of gore.

That’s what makes this film, like others on the list, vastly different. The entire plot is different. In it, an aging vet, blinded in the Viet Nam war (brilliantly played by Nick Damici of “Stakeland” fame) , is checked into a senior living community by his son, despite asserting that he can take care of himself. Now living with his beloved service dog, the man takes note that a lot of the residents are dying, even more than you’d think for a senior community, and the deaths seem to follow the phases of the moon. What’s more, as he’s noted through his hearing and sense of smell, senses he relies upon because he’s blind, there have been odd sounds and smells corresponding with the deaths. He concludes that a werewolf is preying on the residents, and despite his limitations, he sets out to use his military skills to take the monster(s) down.

18. American Mary (2012)

Mary, played by Katharine Isabelle, is a struggling med student studying to be a surgeon. Desperate to make money, she finds herself in a strip club answering an ad to be a masseuse. Instead, she finds herself aiding an injured man hurt conducting some underbelly crime. Trying to detach herself from the incident and move on with her life, a string of bad circumstances come her way which make her quit med school. Then an offer to perform illegal surgeries and body modifications becomes her new calling. Revenge is best served cold.

19. Lisa Frankenstein (2024)

Lisa (Kathryn Newton) is an eccentric high school student living in the shadow of a home invasion that killed her mother. Although her father had moved on and remarried, Lisa was lost, preferring the company of a headstone belonging to a young man in the old graveyard. Lightning strikes and The Creature, playfully played by Cole Sprouse, arises. Together, they quietly move around in their small community as they bring The Creature back to life using body parts from other people and a faulty tanning bed. A throwback to 80s horror, this movie is witty and charming with a few good chuckles.

20. The Hole (2001)

A group of high school students played by Thora Brich, Desmond Harrington, Keira Knightly, and Laurence Fox all skip the school trip to party in an old bunker. All is fun and games until they try to leave at the end of the weekend only to find themselves locked in the bunker with no way out. As they start to starve and turn on each other, it ponders the question of what really happened down there? Was it really an accident or was it planned?

21. The Innkeepers (2011) *Gene approved

A quiet, small town hotel is closing down and two employees are there working overnight to accommodate a few guests and finish stripping the rooms. A worthy note to mention is one of the guests is Kelly McGillis, playing a drunken Medium in town for an event. The one worker is also deadset on catching paranormal activity within the hotel. As he sets up his equipment, Claire (Sara Paxton) goes about her day, not paying much mind to his antics. Still, she’s fascinated when he catches brief encounters and wants to help out when he takes a break. However, Claire is in for more than she anticipated as she starts to see and hear things around the hotel. Are the activities real or a figment of her imagination? This one was truly spooky for any ghost fans.

23. May (2002) *Gene approved

A story of a painfully shy girl named May, Angela Bettis plays this oddball character well. Her social awkwardness is unparalleled. When she was a child, she had a lazy eye which led to her being bullied. In an effort to soothe her insecurities and loneliness, her mother gifts her a doll and tells May to “make” her friends. As an adult, people are drawn to May, but her awkwardness pushes them away, leaving her with crippling abandonment issues. She takes her mother’s advice too far and decides to make herself a friend, using parts from the people who’ve done her wrong.

23. C.H.U.D. II: Bud the Chud (1989)

This was always a personal favorite of mine from when I was a child. This movie is more zombie than sewer dwellers as the movie poster predicts. Bud (Gerrit Graham) is an infected zombie from the military whose body decides to go on a little adventure. When he awakens, he wreaks havoc across the town, biting people and turning them into zombies, creating his own army. However, Bud comes across a picture of Katie (Trisha Leigh Fisher) and falls in love. His wrath throughout town turns into a search for her and as she runs away, the more he pursues. His offering turns into an aww moment, but then you remember he’s a zombie. A classic cheesy 80s horror comedy at its finest. 

24. Possession (2009)

Sarah Michelle Gellar (Jess) has the perfect husband, Ryan. He’s warm, loving, and caring. Of course, the package wouldn’t be complete without his deadbeat brother Roman, played by Lee Pace. A tragic accident leaves both brothers in a coma, leaving Jess completely alone and unable to function without Ryan. Roman awakens, but he’s not Roman. He’s Ryan stuck in Roman’s body. After a lot of convincing, Jess starts to accept that this is real, but starts to become skeptical as she starts to see cracks in Roman-Ryan’s demeanor and stories. The search is on to uncover the truth. Was this an elaborate scheme or did they actually switch bodies? The DVD offers two different endings to this movie depending on what you want to believe. Although it’s not a “Choose Your Own Adventure,” the alternate ending is worth checking out.

25. Stoker (2013)

A twisted gothic-like tale of a young girl (Mia Wasikowski) whose father dies on her birthday and finds herself infatuated with her long-lost uncle. At the funeral her uncle (Matthew Goode) surfaces, a person that she has never met, but is instantly drawn to. He has this magnetic pull from her and she’s drawn deeper into this dark psyche of wanting to hurt people. Meanwhile, her unstable mother (Nicole Kidman) keeps making subtle plays for Charlie even though he’s completely disinterested. He only has eyes for India. Was her father’s death really an accident? Who is Charlie deep down?

27. Love Object (2003)

Desmond Harrington delivers on the role of Kenneth, a socially awkward technical writer who becomes obsessed with his coworker, Lisa (Melissa Sagemiller). Instead of approaching her, he decides to have a life-sized sex doll made in her likeness. His relationship with the doll harms none, but as the real Lisa starts to show interest in him, he’s in a war of emotions between his doll and the real thing. As he discovers “flaws” on the real Lisa, he becomes more unhinged and violent towards his doll until he directs his rage elsewhere. The film offers a good twist ending as well, definitely not a miss! I’d recommend this movie and “May” as a double feature!

28. Shark Night (2011)

A group of college students get more than they bargained for when they vacation at a fellow friend’s summer home. The lake around the home is infested with sharks. Believed that the sharks have been washed in by a hurricane, it becomes a test of wills as the group try to escape this remote hell for help. As they start to become shark bait, it’s revealed there’s a bigger ulterior motive afoot. Starring Sara Paxton, Dustin Milligan, Katharine McPhee, Chris Carmack, and Donal Logue. This is a fun spring break feature to watch at your lake house!

Psycho Turns 65 - A Commentary

By Colton Claye

I’ve seen Psycho dozens of times, but last year I had the fortune of experiencing it in a cinema for the very first time. There aren't many movies in general that regularly return to theatres for over six decades and very few of those could be considered horror films.

That a single scene in Psycho inspired the entire slasher genre of movies would be enough to secure its place in history but that doesn’t even begin to graze the glaze of what makes it a masterpiece.

The shower scene is, of course, one of the most iconic scenes in the history of film (possibly the most iconic), powerful all on its own without any context. But what makes it more unsettling is that the scene follows Marion's conversation with Norman, an exchange which leads her to change course, make the right choice. So, of course, the shower represents Marion’s cleansing in a deeper sense. And then she is stabbed to death. Norman, both helps her find the right path and still makes her pay with her life for having ever chosen the wrong one.

That sort of dissonance is all over the film and, more importantly and more impressively, in the mind of the viewer. I had the theatre to myself, and it helped me appreciate on another level how easily Hitchcock gets the viewer involved in the film. You recognize you are as unsteady as the characters and events on the screen. In a move that was quite daring, the lead actress is killed off before the film is even halfway through. We have been seeing things through one character's eyes and now find ourselves seeing it through another character's eyes and we have a whole different story to follow. Very quickly, we transfer allegiances without even making a conscious choice. We find ourselves hoping the victim's car will submerge completely as we, at this point, sympathize with Norman. And in a remarkably economical section of dialogue where California Charlie greets Marion and talks about the first customer of the day being trouble, Hitchcock makes us feel some comic relief in the exact instant that we also feel the panic Marion is experiencing.

You don't just fear what is coming in the movie, but you become uncertain of your own ideas of what is right or wrong. Yet in the very next moment we go on so sure of ourselves, setting our own “private trap”: we watch Marion's sister desperately trying to find Norman's mother, we feel a danger she can't anticipate, only for Hitchcock to reveal something else entirely which we didn’t anticipate.

Part of Hitchcock’s brilliance was knowing who to collaborate with. For the soundtrack, he brought in Bernard Herrmann, whose first film score was for Citizen Kane and final film score Taxi Driver. He also scored Hitchcock’s Vertigo and North by Northwest (talk about a great resume). Herrmann delivered a haunting and iconic score, creating tension right from the opening credits. It was Herrmann’s idea to add music for the shower scene, and he delivered a cultural moment with the score, which feels as harsh and cold as the blade we see on screen. It left such an impression that it also inspired the use of the "stabbing” strings on “Eleanor Rigby” (also worth noting here is that there are obvious similarities between Norman’s isolated and mummied mother and Eleanor).

 The use of black and white, while done for budgetary reasons rather than an artistic one, emphasizes the contrasts and sharpens the clash between light and shadow.

 While the viewer likely hasn’t done anything as gruesome as Norman Bates, Hitchcock reveals our own fractured state, how we put trust where it doesn't belong and relate to dangerous minds more than we care to admit. The audience goes uncredited in the film, but Hitchcock knows we are all helping to drive the tension.

About the author

Colton Claye, a native of Milwaukee, WI, is an author, songwriter, visual artist, and an advocate for all conscious creatures. His work has been featured in a wide variety of print and digital publications. His latest release, The Percussive Sun, is a collection of surrealist poetry. He sends you warm regards

The Real Rules of Dating

by dandy j. west and gene lass

Some people like dating. They like flirting, the chase, the romance, getting to know each other, and having fun. Others really hate it, some to the point where they stay single forever. The mixed signals, the tiresome pursuit, the mind games, the awkwardness, the expense, the social pressure, the time investment.

One of the biggest headaches of dating is not having a roadmap of how to do it. Even when the book “The Rules: Time-Tested Secrets for Capturing the Heart of Mr. Right” by Sherrie Schneider and Ellen Fein was published in 1995, the efficacy of the guidelines was hotly debated. Eventually it was conceded that while some of the suggestions could be effective, others were counterproductive and likely to lead to a bad relationship if you were able to find someone at all.

It's an even bigger factor today, when there have been changing moral standards, changes in technology, and more. So, from our experience, this is what you should do and not do when you’re out there in the mine field that is the dating world.

Asking someone out

“Does he like me or does he like me like me?” So much stress and anxiety goes into this stage. Having the bravery to ask someone out.

 First, it’s the 21st century, well past the time when it’s acceptable for anyone to ask out anyone. This isn’t a Jane Austen novel, where someone pines away for years hoping to be asked out to a ball before dying mercifully of consumption. If you like someone, ask them out. If they say no, c’est la vie. You asked, move on.

 As a guy, when I was in school, I used to put a ton of work into asking a girl out. Are there signals that she likes me? Does she even know I’m alive? Are her friends cool? Do they talk about me when I’m around? Is it cool talking, like flirting, or are they whispering and laughing while looking at me? What I was really afraid of wasn’t so much the rejection, but the aftermath. What if the girl thought I was so pathetic that she and her friends laughed about it for the rest of their lives and now the school had even more of a reason to mock me? What if this was a thing that was brought up at school reunions, or in town lore decades later? These are the things that go through people’s minds. Push that out of your mind. Ask her out. Be cool about it, be casual, and see what happens. Whatever the answer, just be casual.

Dandy: On the flipside, being a girl asking a boy out was unheard of. In high school, I had a running reputation of being “desperate” because I had the balls to approach a guy I liked to ask him out. I was always, always rejected and even became a locker room joke, being called fat and ugly. As times have slightly changed, it is still considered taboo for a woman to ask a man out. However, because men lately are also afraid of being seen as aggressive in light of the #MeToo movement, most won’t approach a woman for a simple date and prefer to wait to be asked by them. This turn in events puts women in a peculiar predicament. The good news is, if a woman asks, guys will most likely say yes unless they’re truly not interested. However, many years of social propriety still hold up that men should step up and make the first move. Take the chance! I was asked how my ex and I got together and I always replied with, “He asked me out.”

Dating apps

Sometimes it’s embarrassing to be a guy. Not just for what I’ve done myself as a human being, but on behalf of guys in general. And behavior on dating apps is one of them. Dating apps are basically just the latest version of dating services and personal ads from years ago. Profiles have had the same lies in them for decades, regardless of where you find them. You can probably recite them yourself:
“Seeking a long-term relationship with a soul mate. I just want to take things slow. I enjoy cooking, moonlit walks, old movies, holding hands, dogs, and cats (both!).”

 You respond to that, and it’s pretty clear that the guy wants sex. How clear? He might be mentioning it in the first five minutes, in no uncertain terms. I don’t know how many girls have complained to me about this, telling me that they got rid of all the apps, only to try again weeks or months later before running into the same thing and bailing out again, usually within 15 minutes. Guys: There are other apps and groups for just hooking up. Find them. Use them.

Dandy: Dating apps are repugnant. If you have a few different ones, you’ll start to notice the same people on them. Not the same kind of people, but the same people. And the people sending you likes or match requests based on your interests are usually people you wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole. I had a few dates with a guy I met on a dating app and when I realized that I wasn’t really into him and was honest about it, he declared that he was my last chance at finding a decent guy. Wow, who knew? Goodbye! For those who’ve had success on dating apps, you are the exception.

The politics of dancing

By and large, ladies like to dance. Guys don’t. There are exceptions. But I can tell you this: I don’t know of a single guy – none – who has ever gone to a dance club to dance. I can also say that back in my teens and 20s, if a guy I knew suggested we go to a club, the reason wasn’t to dance. You go to a club to find a girl. You may not be expecting to get laid that night (though the movies and tv show that happening all the time), but you want to meet a girl, dance, get a number, and get something started. Essentially, dancing is an unpleasant thing to do, a sacrifice made, to meet a girl and get to more pleasant things.
 On the other hand, girls actually like to dance. My wife and her friends used to go to dance clubs just to dance, and they’d complain about getting hit on, even when they were married, wearing their rings. Gross, right? Except it’s mixed signals. Guys assume that if a girl is out there at a club, she’s looking to hook up, looking for a guy. But no, unlike men, women actually enjoy dancing, and they’ll do it even if there are no guys there at all. It’s a thing.

 So, guys – don’t assume, and don’t be creepy. But ladies – sometimes you need to get a clue. I was dating a girl for a bit. It began when we started talking and she asked if I wanted to go dancing. Cool. I went dancing with her 3 times. We always met her best friend there, a guy who was both gay and in a wheelchair. He just went to listen to music, watch her dance, drink, and smoke. Sometimes I’d sit one out and talk to him while she was out there and he knew I liked her. He said that he leaned more to being bi and he liked her too, but he knew it was never going to happen. He actually just wanted to be there to see her dance and be around her, because she loved dancing so much. Okay, yet somehow when I asked her to dinner she was surprised. She didn’t know I liked her. I explained that yeah, I did, which is why I went dancing with her. I’d just as soon be sitting home chewing on tinfoil, maybe slowly sticking pins in my fingers because that would be more pleasant than listening to club music and jerking around out there trying to look like I was having a good time.

Dandy: I wish dudes would get over this because a man who can dance is sexy. But, this is also a slippery slope because she may only be looking for pals to go dancing with and/or a buffer so creepy dudes don’t hit on her (and worst case scenario which is bad news, she needed a ride). Either way, she’s going out with or without you. What you need to do is not go if you don’t want to. You can say something along the lines of, “I want to spend time with you, but dancing isn’t really my thing” and if you’re feeling up to it, suggest a different activity for a different time. If she counters with the bullshit of, “If you like me, you’ll do this for me…” Run. Simple as that. She’s manipulative and not worth your time. If you decide to join her at the club, suck it up. You don’t have to dance, but don’t be a sourpuss downer either. Good news is some clubs do have billiards and/or arcade games. Keep yourself busy and don’t be a babysitter. Otherwise, get on the dance floor with her. She’ll appreciate the effort.

I totally agree. And that’s what I did with the girl I went dancing with. Similarly, with my girlfriend before that, sometimes she wanted to go out dancing, but it was rare. So we went, and I danced a couple of times, but she knew I hated it, so she’d go out there with her female friend while that friend’s boyfriend and I drank or played games. Being part of a couple means sometimes you have to do stuff the other person likes. But not all the time. Sometimes it should be you, and sometimes it’s stuff you both like.

Setting up your friends

Here’s another classic bit of dating code. Even though I knew the lie, I gave into it three times. “I have someone you should meet. It’s not a blind date, you can just hang out. She/he has a great personality.”

 Yeah, okay. First, we all know this is setting someone up for a date. Second, “great personality” is code for “not ugly, but not particularly good looking. Not really smart, not really interesting, but probably won’t kill you or stalk you.”

 And that pretty much sums up the situation every time I agreed to this. A friend of mine set me up with his ex, because I had a break-up and was feeling discouraged, and he felt bad that he had dumped the girl a while back. It was fine. She was fine. Neither of us had particular interest in the other. I’ve drank glasses of water that were more interesting than the afternoons or evenings I spent with her.

With the second one, my mom set me up with a coworker my age. Same deal, “She’s so nice, you’d love her.” The problem my parents had with my ex was that while she was beautiful and intelligent, she had opinions of her own and couldn’t be manipulated by them, unlike the girl Mom set me up with who called them “Mom and Dad” and who started out as just dull but ended up being a bit nuts.

The third time around, I had just taken a job out of state, and a coworker, knowing I didn’t know many people in the area, tried to set me up with her mousy friend. It was clear that the coworker was seeing this as an opportunity to unload her friend on someone, since most coworkers our age were either newly married or engaged at that point. This girl made the first girl seem exciting. The funny part was, I did find someone and get married a couple of years later, and my coworker was stunned. I asked her why and she said, “She’s not the kind of girl I thought you’d be with.” Oh really? A pretty, smart, funny professional who’s actually fun to be around? I’ve never known if that meant she thought I was dull myself, or if I just liked dull women.

Dandy: This can work out for some, but it’s a small margin. Case in point: the person I’m currently dating I had met through a mutual friend. It wasn’t quite a set up, we all just happened to be at the same event and introductions were made. I was having a conversation with my friend when he interrupted me and excitedly asked, “Do you know….? He’s a great guy!” and launched into all the usual stuff one would tell a person about the other. This only happened because the guy was standing nearby, my friend saw him and it clicked. You’re a nice single girl into certain things, he’s a nice single guy also into those things…BOOM! Then we were introduced. We had our first date the following weekend and two and half years later, still seeing each other. Most relationships will stem from a more natural interaction or coincidence (like being at the same event), not by being set up. I once had an acquaintance set me up with someone. We talked for a few days online, even did a video chat, and although he wasn’t what I would typically be attracted to, I said yes to a date. When I arrived at the date, if people saw the look of disappointment on my face by seeing him in person, I’m sure they would have thought I found out through osmosis that my pet just died. Nevertheless, I didn’t want to be shallow, so I went through with the date. This dude then criticized me for my job history and was not very fun to talk to. I suffered a little longer until he had to go because he was attending a baseball game. Later that day, hours after the date, he messaged me and asked what I thought about him. It was a hard no, I was polite in my rejection, but he was not happy. He made jerk-like remarks and that was that. Bullet dodged and the price I paid for being nice enough to still honor the date. Case in point: don’t do set ups with your friends. They very rarely work out.

Know what you like

I mentioned that some of the girls I dated were dull, and they were. But that may not be entirely accurate. In some cases, I don’t really know if they were dull or not, because they said little, even when it came down to the key question of what we were going to do on a date. I’d ask if they wanted to see a movie. Sure. Is there one you want to see? No. Want to get something to eat? Sure. What would you like? I don’t know.

 This makes going on a date frustrating just out of simple logistics. If we’re supposed to have a good time, perhaps talk about what you like. Also, if we’re supposed to get to know each other, talk about something you like, don’t like, maybe a food allergy, anything. It can be exhausting.

Dandy: I agree that you should get a general sense of interests to better assess where to go on the date. For instance, you don’t want to take your vegan date to a steak house. I feel like these are basic information questions that should be addressed in the talking stages, but you have to ask them and come ready with suggestions. If they say they don’t know where to go, offer up suggestions. However, avoid taking your date to places that you’ve taken other dates to. Personally, I cringe when I see friends do this with their current significant other. I had a friend who enjoyed camping. Nothing wrong with that. He posted all sorts of pictures of him and his girlfriend at this camp site. A short time later, he had a new girlfriend and guess where they went camping? The same exact place. What? It was like looking at a flipbook where the only thing that changed was the girl in the picture. I might be alone in that and you should share your favorite places with people, but at the same time, mix it up. It’s like that meme where the guy tells his date he’s never been to this bar before, but the bartender is rolling his eyes because he knows that’s not true at all. Get a basic understanding of interests and start making a mental note of suggestions. This works on both ends.

Absolutely. Which is why it can get so frustrating. I can suggest a lot of things. You should have an opinion regarding some of them. Want to get dinner and a movie? Okay. Great. Pretty standard. But there’s a world of difference between McDonald’s or Waffle House and a formal sit-down restaurant. And there are lots of kinds of movies. I can bite the bullet and take you to a romantic comedy, or we can do low-budget slasher. Tell me you want the slasher and this date just got 10 times more interesting.

Money and jobs

This can be very much a regional thing, particularly in places like Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Washington, D.C., but it’s a serious turn-off every time it comes up. Let’s say you’re at a party or a bar and you meet a group of girls while getting your plate of hummus or getting another round. You just say hello, you give your name, one of them says you’re cute, everything is great, then one of them says, “So what do you do?”

“I’m a writer.”
“Oh cool! What do you write, like books or movies?”
“I’ve written a few books, you probably haven’t read any of them, they were self-help and trade books. Right now I’m the editor of the top publication in the country related to audio and lighting.”
The light goes out in their eyes a bit. One girl walks away.

“So you’re a technical writer?”
“No. I edit a magazine. Technical writing is different.”
“So you’re not really a writer.”
“Sure I am. I write every day.”

Another girl walks away, leaving you with one. She perks up a bit.

“But do you make a lot of money? If you have the top publication you should make a lot of money, go on trips and stuff.”

“I do okay, and I travel, but I wouldn’t say it’s a lot of money. What do you do?”

Before the girl can answer, she’s already gone. From that point on, the only action I’m getting is gouda on crackers and crab dip.
  Sometimes the conversation is even more brutally brief. Less than 30 seconds. In L.A. or D.C. they’ll sometimes just ask you flat out if you work for somebody or know somebody. If not, boom, it’s over. In New York or Chicago, I’ve just been asked flat out how much I make or what my job title is. If it’s not enough, adios.

This used to be frustrating, but overall it’s just disgusting. In hindsight I’ve been kind of relieved because it means I didn’t have to waste any time on these materialistic gold diggers. They select themselves out right away.

Dandy: Those women are looking for providers, but your career can be a point of interest. I’d rather date a man working in landscaping than one who works at Starbucks. Not because of the money, but because it shows he has real goals in mind. True, some are only trying to make money to get by, totally understand that, but having ambition is what an adult looks for. Women don’t want the guy who is going to hang around his mom’s basement working low end retail jobs his whole life. They want someone who can show initiative and make something of himself in a respectable field. It might sound shallow and yes, maybe a bit disgusting, but it’s the truth. Unless the woman is a breadwinner, she is looking for an equal or a provider. It’s a touchy subject and a job is a job, especially in today’s economy, but it is unfortunately something women do take into account. With that said though, it’s not a dealbreaker in some instances. He could be working that shitty job (and living at home) while he’s in school or applying for the big boy opportunity. So, don’t be too hasty to walk away at first. If he seems to lack motivation to change his situation, then it might be time to move on. My ex had a decent job with the city, but he wasn’t happy. He often talked about going back to school to get a degree and start a real career. I was his cheerleader, trying to motivate him to follow his goals. He didn’t follow through. Smoking weed, playing video games and cheating on our relationship were more important to him than his life goals. Guys, get your priorities straight!

I absolutely get this, and agree. You want a guy who has direction in life, not a perpetual child or a slacker. But the flip side is just wrong. I’ve heard women outright say they love dating because they want guys to buy them stuff. My wife had a friend who complained of women he dated who were so materialistic that they said on the first date, “I expect you to make this much money. I expect you to be on this career track. And I expect you to propose to me within 6 months to 2 years. The ring should be a gold band with a diamond of this size and quality or better.” This happened to the guy twice! After that he just went for bar hookups. He was done with dating or any plans for marriage. It wasn’t worth the hassle.

Your friends can be a problem

By now, the term DUFF is pretty commonplace. There was a romantic comedy by that name in 2015 that referred to the phenomenon, and gave it the name (which stands for Designated Ugly Fat Friend). It’s a thing, like going to the bathroom in pairs. If you see a cute girl and she has a friend, chances are the other girl isn’t as cute as she is, or cuter. In the guy world, if we’re at a party or a bar, discussion has to occur. Who gets the cute one, and who gets the other one. It usually comes down to which guy has the most interest, though there may be history, and last time one of the guys got the cute girl. This has played out in countless sitcoms.

 Of course it plays out with guys, too. As a teen I was a nerd, but I had a couple of good-looking friends, and one of them also drove a vintage Corvette. If my friend and I were out and we ran into some girls, I knew most of the girls would be interested in him, and I’d be getting the second tier girls, who were often more interesting anyway.

 However, sometimes your friends are a detriment. Your buddies may be your sisters, your bros, your tribe, but sometimes you’re the only one who likes them, and people on the outside think they’re cackling hags, airheads, assholes, or burnouts. I’ve heard people say plenty of times that they would ask out some guy or girl, except their friends are always around, and the friends are intolerable.

 This can be a problem even after you’ve been dating. I had a girlfriend whose best friend was the DUFF. Pleasant enough but bleh. Still, while she was around a lot, she didn’t bother me, she was just there, and then she’d go home. In contrast, I had two friends who were a problem. They’d come home from college and we’d hang out. One friend insisted on playing recordings of our old band every time we got together. Our old band was not good, and my girlfriend really hated that music, but she was subjected to 2 hours or more of it every time we saw this guy, and it clearly was pissing her off. I’d suggest we go somewhere, do something else, watch a movie, but no, he wanted to hang out there and play that stuff, and since it was his house our choice was to stay our go. So we made brief visits.

 Similarly, I had another friend who annoyed me. Eccentric, serious ADHD, he would pace, recite lines from standup comics out of context, laugh when no one said anything funny, and sometimes spit on himself without realizing it. It was a bit much even for me, and it was too much for my girlfriend after meeting him just once. When we got in the car to leave she looked at me and said, “I love you, but that guy’s nuts.” I said, “I know.”

 From that point, I had to make a choice – hang out with them or hang out with her. I decided to see them once or maybe twice when they were around, without her. If they had been around before I started dating her, I probably never would have gotten her to go out with me. You may have to make that choice.

Dandy: I’ve definitely dealt with a boyfriend’s shitty friends and also having friends that boyfriends and friends or even family didn’t like. I had a friend that no one liked. Other people merely tolerated her because she was my friend. Oddly enough, I am no longer in association with any of those people. I was never the DUFF per se when I was younger, but somewhere in-between. In my later teens, I hung out with these two girls, so it was often the three of us. Since this was the late 90s and early 00s, being tall, blonde, and skinny was the perfect ideal woman, which weighed heavily on my self esteem because I, well, wasn’t those things. One girl was taller than us, but skinny with light brown hair. She was intelligent and tomboyish, so she received all the attention. The other girl was overweight, goth, and very loud and outgoing. She demanded attention and she sometimes received it as well. Then there was me. Average height, average weight, quiet because I didn’t care, but I was secretly seething when the cute guys all paid attention to my friends. I never met a guy while hanging out with them, but only when I was off doing my own thing. When meshing my friend groups together at that time, there was some commonality, but in the end when all fell apart, so did the friendships on all sides. I feel like that’s common when you’re younger and your maturity isn’t built in yet. As an adult, your tolerance goes up, but your patience only goes so far. As I mentioned before, I had let go of a friendship that I had for 18 years because she never grew up and I could finally see why others disliked her so much. I hesitate with mixing friend groups as an adult because everyone is so different. I’ve met friends of friends and got along great and others not so much. I also root for my friends when they too let go of toxic people in their lives. No one needs that! But, it is unavoidable. The people you date are going to have that friend or family member that you don’t like. It’s up to you on how you deal with it. Do you mention it? Sure, but be ready for possible clapback. Also, have a valid reason for not liking that person. Not liking them because they’re good-looking is only a reflection of your insecurities. Not liking them because you notice how badly they treat your partner or how your partner acts around them is a good indication that maybe that person isn’t such a good person. Either way, it’s a map that needs navigating and you’ll have to figure it out as you go.

Another factor is having friends of the opposite sex. I have always gotten along better with men, ever since I was a kid. Having two older brothers molded me into being more cool with guys than girls. With that said, I was always feminine, never a tomboy. This was problematic for male friends. That line between friendship and wanting more was almost always prevalent and oftentimes my existence pissed off girlfriends and wives. Ladies, unless you can see obvious signs that the woman has feelings for your man, you don’t have to fret. She only sees friendship. If he has heart eyes for her, then that’s a conversation the two of you need to have. I have been called a homewrecker by jealous wives because their husbands dared to pay me a compliment. Don’t hate on the female friend simply because she’s a woman. Same goes for guys as well-don’t hate on the guy friend because you can sense he wants your girl or because he has a penis. She’s obviously with you.

Great point. Some say it’s impossible to simply be friends with the opposite sex. It even comes up in “When Harry Met Sally,” which for me has been the most accurate description of relationships I’ve ever seen in a film. In it, Harry tells Sally about the male mindset, in which you often think about sex so often that you consider whether you’d have sex with pretty much anyone. Some people are absolutely a no-go, but others, maybe, under certain circumstances, okay. That circumstance might be the end of the world, or a hostage situation, or when blind drunk, but it could still happen. That mindset can be a problem for people. Like Dandy, I’ve found it easier to be friends with the opposite sex for most of my life. Why? Because guys don’t talk. Ever. Not about anything serious or personal. Unless it’s life or death. I’ve been friends with one of my friends since kindergarten. With him, we talk movies, books, and music until someone dies. Then it’s like, “Hey, Bob died. Heart attack.” “Oh, that sucks.” We pour one to toast Bob’s memory, tell a few stories, then it’s back to movies. On the other hand, if you’re comfortable with a girl, but not attracted, she can help guide you through life. It’s pretty awesome. But what if you are attracted, or vice versa? The unrequited love situation. Well, as Dandy said, you’ve gotta have that conversation. Point out that it will never, and that does mean never, happen. If you can live with that, you have the makings of a great, valuable friend. But put that torch away. And if you get married or have a girlfriend, tell your significant other that yep, she’s my friend. We’ve had the conversation, it’s never gonna happen. She’s not a threat. Hopefully you can then all get along.

Your family can also be a problem

Mama’s boys and daddy’s girls. They’re a thing, and you probably don’t want to be with either one of them. With each, you’ll never have a role in their life as big as their parents. You’ll never measure up. And if you like your family, be ready to not see much of them if your relationship gets serious.

But it goes beyond that. Some people never really leave the nest. They live in their same town, near their parents, and they talk to their parents every day, see them every week. I dated one girl whose family was so tight they were more like a cult. They all had the same haircut, they shared each other’s clothes, they had their own speech pattern, basically had their own language. It was creepy. I began to wonder what my expected role was in this scenario. Was I supposed to be the guy who knocks up one of the daughters so she can produce more of these weird pod people? That seemed to be the case. So I got out of there.

Similar to the friend situation – if you have no identity outside of your family and friends, if there is no singular you, if you’re never without them, that’s a problem.

Dandy: This one is tricky because it depends on the situation. Some people are in a position where they’re the caregivers to their parents and/or a family member. Others deal with needy, manipulative, toxic parents, typically mothers who abuse the love and attention from their children. For me personally, when I encounter a “momma’s boy,” I take a deep breath and wait for the story behind it before proceeding. This is why: My ex-boyfriend’s mom was needy. He was not the oldest or youngest and not the wealthiest either. I think he was the only one who answered her calls. This was particularly odd since she and his siblings were all part of the same church. He had left the church behind when he turned 18. The rest of his family stayed devoted and were all close. But, when his mom needed favors, mostly in the means of money, he was the one she called. Dog not feeling well? Take him to the vet and pay the bill. Something broken in the house? Call a repairman and pay. I called him out on this behavior and noted that he had 4 other siblings who could help her and that he needed to speak with them about it because she was draining his finances. His response was, “I know, but they don’t have money and she’s my mom.” He didn’t have money either! We have bills to pay! In no way am I saying that helping your parent(s) out with things is undesirable, but there’s a limit somewhere, especially when there are others around to help provide as well. Again, depends on the situation, but it definitely can put a strain on the relationship. If you’re in the former where you’re a caregiver/provider to your parents and trying to date as well, be up front with your partner. Honesty goes a long way. They will be understanding and patient or they can walk away. Momma’s boys do need to check themselves though and need to recognize if their relationship with their mother is acceptable or toxic. Some don’t notice until their significant other points it out. If your relationships keep failing, look at the patterns. It’s probably your mom! I read horror stories all the time about toxic mother-in-laws. Don’t be a statistic in that category.

Yeah, caregivers are something else entirely. Throughout my life I’ve seen a trend. When there are multiple siblings, one tends to live close to the parents while the others move away and go about their lives. Often there’s no discussion about it, it just works out that way. Depending on what your career is, you might have to go where the work is, so you end up hundreds of miles or more from where you grew up and where your parents are. That’s entirely different. There’s another phenomenon that’s far more troubling - the people who might as well have never moved out. I just don’t understand that. They go to school, move out in their 20s, but they’re less than a mile from their parents and see them all the time. They go on vacation together, they do stuff together constantly, and eventually as the parents get older, that adult child moves back in with them. What was the point in moving out in the first place? Most likely you won’t get an opportunity to date someone like that. From their perspective, their best girlfriend or boyfriend (actual terms I’ve heard more than once) is Mom or Dad. But if you do encounter that, back away.

Accept reality

Shakespeare said, “To thine own self be true.” Don’t lie to yourself. Are you a “serial monogamist?” Are you a “runaway bride” or have you been engaged 4 times? Did you go through 3 marriages in less than 10 years? Why? Maybe you have bad taste or make bad decisions. Maybe you’re afraid of commitment. It can’t all just be bad luck.

Dandy: Figuring out what you want out of life and even deeper, who you are as a person, is a long difficult journey. There are people who can’t be by themselves and become serial daters. I had a friend who’s therapist told them to stop dating to try to heal their co-dependency. About a month later, they had a new relationship and it went on from there. Relationship after relationship. Others don’t want to bother with dating at all. Good for them. It could be fear of commitment, fear of being hurt, or simply bad luck because the market out there isn’t kind. The key thing is to figure out who you are, what you want and go with it. Be prepared for failure, but be open to success as well.

Be clear, be confident and don’t overthink it. The beauty of your story is that it’s going to continue to evolve and your site can evolve with it. Your goal should be to make it feel right for right now. Later will take care of itself. It always does.

About the authors
Dandy J. West is a true Manic Pixie Dream Girl who likes to dabble in writing. She works on fiction and non-fiction with rare ventures into poetry. Nevertheless, her non-fiction work has been published in online magazines under different pseudonyms. To keep active between writing projects, she's always ready with a red pen to help other writers who entrust her with editing. She enjoys movies, roller skating, hiking, seeing live music, and reading fiction. She currently resides in Milwaukee, WI.

Gene Lass is a professional writer and editor, working in all forms of media from books and blogs to newspapers and magazines. He has written, edited, co-written, or contributed to more than a dozen books, and has published 9 books of poetry and two collections of short fiction. His most recent book of poetry, American was one of the Amazon Top 100 Books of American Poetry. His work has appeared in Every Day Poems , The Albatross, KSquare, Electric Velocipede, Schlock!, Coffin Bell Journal, Black Petals, and Yellow Mama. His short story, “Fence Sitter” was nominated for Best of the Web in 2020.